Scudrunners

I’m kind of surprised this topic did not exist yet . Today’s the day I guess.

I was writing a reply in one of my rambling gibberish topics to someone talking about the least expensive options for buying a plane, after we were discussing planes you have to hand start. Of course I started babbling about the fact that, trying to save money in aviation always ends up being pretty expensive.

I realized this topic could use some discussion. Now I’m here.

I like to browse advertisements for planes. I see them for under $50,000. I am tempted to buy one. I might even do it someday.

Trust me when it comes to flight training, most flight schools own the least expensive plane that is practical for that purpose.

If you want to know how much it would cost to own the cheapest plane to train on ask the manager about buying one of their’s.

I have been spoiled, flying those planes as rentals. They are maintained to various levels of the standard required for a commercially registered aircraft. Some of the rental planes I have complained about in the past were still ready to fly across the continent.

The reason you can’t use ultralights for logging time towards licensing is most of them are barely capable of flying around their home base. Also the reason they’re inexpensive and it’s much easier to get/keep an ultralight license.

Even a certified plane you have to hand prop will limit your training capabilities.

A j-3 with no electricity would be a fantastic toy but I don’t think it’s a practical tool for chasing an ATPL.

Alow me to imagine a scenario.

I buy a sweet 1946 Aeronca Champ and fly it 1500 hours nordo, mostly after a CPL. I apply to work at Rouge and it’s looking pretty good, they like me (who doesn’t?) and I made a kickin resume. Maybe they even hire me. Kind of unlikely since I have minimal hood time from my CPL and now I can’t keep up with ATC on various radio frequencies even while someone else is flying the plane. It’s like they are speaking another language. I also have no multi engine, no night and definitely no IFR.

Thank you for your interest. We do not have a position that matches your experience at this time. We will keep your resume on file for six months in case something...

So after your private license you might need something at least capable of IFR flight if not practical for it.

Otherwise on addition to the various costs of owning your plane, you will be renting a plane for some of the training towards a Commercial license. After you have a commercial license if you want to build time, you probably should be building night cross country experience. That’s what will put you ahead of the rest of the pilots. Later on.

Ok, come on in and explain why I’m wrong, and how to do it right in 2021.

I think your right, I will still likely be buying a small tail dragger. But not just for time building, it will be for pleasure as well, but I figure why not bank hours for my CPL while I'm having fun? Also my career path is not chasing an ATPL, I'm going CPL then instructor. I would love to eventually fly medivac but that will hopefully come later. Basically the plane I buy now for time building is the one I want to keep and putt around with well after licensing. As I've stated before I'm kinda different though.

But if your thinking big shiny planes I think your spot on,

First off, I have lived my life as a sentimental fool. I try to obtain the things I covet and plan to keep them a lifetime. This strategy has probably made me miss out on cool experiences.

I have a friend who’s a year or two either side of thirty and to him cool things are still things. They can be ditched in the pursuit of other cool things. To date he’s had something like sixteen airplanes compared to my one half of an unairworthy airplane. I’m pretty sure he’s winning by a country mile here. Oh, and Scud I think he’s your Pitts twin.

I think the same can be applied to buying your own trainer. Start off with a Champ or a buck fifty or whatever lowest rung you want and trade up as you grow. Maybe do a partnership to divide up fixed costs on the thing but overall don’t plan on making it a member of the family. If you want a singular answer to carry you through everything but multi stuff I imagine some flavour of Cherokee with a four cylinder engine, fixed gear, fixed pitch prop, good equipment and ugly paint is one of the best compromises, or at least was before all this wing-shedding AD malarkey came up.

I will still likely be buying a small tail dragger

If you do end up in T Bay Kakabeka Falls has a nice little grass strip and is likely far cheaper than keeping an aircraft at Thunder Bay.

Chhers

I encourage everyone to buy a plane for training. Using your own plane would be much more enjoyable.

I am just trying to warn everyone that if a commercial pilots license is the main or only goal, you need to make sure you and the plane are ready to fly at least 200 hours the year you buy it. The plane needs to be equipped for IFR training and capable enough for spin recognition AKA unusual attitude training.

I hope it changes but a couple of days ago, spring 2021, too many used Cessna 172s are being advertised for over one hundred thousand dollars.

In addition operating it will still cost more money.

Owning a plane will be awesome, be aware it might be more expensive than renting. If you fly less than 100 hours a year it will cost more than renting.

TwinOtterFan wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:30 am

I think your right, I will still likely be buying a small tail dragger. But not just for time building, it will be for pleasure as well, but I figure why not bank hours for my CPL while I'm having fun?

Hey, TwinOtterFan, your discussions were part of the inspiration for this but I was not directing it at you.

Absolutely. I agree buying a nice little plane with no electrics and a tail wheel would not only be fun. It will increase your flying skills significantly. Conventional gear is not impossible to learn after flying tricycle planes but it is a challenge.

My biggest point is buying a plane for training is very likely to end up being more expensive than one hopes.

Even if I find one for under $30,000 that does not end up needing a new engine after 30 - 150 hours. If you are going to get a CPL You will need to rent a plane with a radio and enough functional IFR equipment to do the instrument training and get the night rating requirement for a Commercial license.

I'm not saying it can't be done. I am saying if someone buys a plane they might not be able to even use it without buying an engine or radios soon. Re-selling it and recovering the costs may be impossible.

I agree completely, especially with the current market even shares in such a plane seems to be a bit pricey. I'll admit when I first started looking it was more for just time building and a little about owning a neat plane like say the MiniCab. Which is still available as far as I know if someone is interested.

But after you started this thread (I thank you for that) I did a lot more research and decided I'd rather own the and I was going to get anyway just sooner and build some time while still renting for my CPL. It's not for everyone but your thread, some articles and recent events in my life have led me in that direction.

For those unaware of my background I served in the medical core, my last deployment was to Montreal at the beginning of the pandemic. We were sent into the nursing homes after the staff walked out and left the tenants for dead. I learned more about mortality and just how short life is and what's waiting for us all when we get their. Couple that with my wife losing both grandparents in the last ten days and the decision was simple.

On that note, you guys are spot on, it seems great at first but doesn't seem plausible at least anymore.

If I owned a hanger I would possibly buy a tube and fabric project. Then spend whatever I need to go fly it. Renting a hangar around YYC is a bit pricey.

My only regret in life, was buying a house without a hangar and airstrip.

David MacRay wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:21 pm

If I owned a hanger I would possibly buy a tube and fabric project. Then spend whatever I need to go fly it. Renting a hangar around YYC is a bit pricey.

My only regret in life, was buying a house without a hangar and airstrip.

I'm currently looking at a Kitfox and my wife and I are always looking at properties west of TBay around Kakabeka Falls. The first thing I look at whenever my wife picks a properly is to measure the lot lol.