Scudrunners

wow great reporting the bodies ain't even cold yet and its pilot error.




[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01 ... yrgyzstan/]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01 ... yrgyzstan/[/url]

A Turkish cargo plane flying from Hong Kong has crashed into a village in Kyrgyzstan, killing all four crew and at least 33 people on the ground.
The Boeing 747 operated by ACT Airlines crashed as it was about to land in fog at Manas airport, 25km (15 miles) north of the capital, Bishkek.
At least 15 buildings were destroyed in the village outside the airport, with a number of children among the dead.
Flight TK6491 was to have stopped at Manas en route to Istanbul in Turkey.

Kyrgyz authorities have declared a day of mourning for Tuesday.
ACT is an Istanbul-based airline operating [url=http://www.jetphotos.net/aircraft/747-32897]under the name MyCargo[/url].  [url=http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b747-32897.htm]The plane[/url] is believed to have been about 14 years old.
Deputy PM Muhammetkaly Abulgaziev said on state TV:[u][b] "According to preliminary information, the plane crashed due to a pilot error."[/b][/u]'Like an earthquake'One witness, Baktygul Kurbatova, told local media: "I woke up because of a bright red light outside. I couldn't understand what was happening.

"It turns out the ceiling and the walls were crashing in on us. I was so scared but I managed to cover my son's face with my hands so that debris would not fall on him."

Another resident, named only as Tajikan, said she heard "a roar and (what felt) like an earthquake".
"Many people were sleeping, everything around was burning. One of the parts of the aircraft fell on our neighbour's house. She and her whole family died."
At least 15 people, including six children, were injured, the health ministry said.
ACT said the plane had no record of technical faults and had not encountered problems during its flight.
One of its two flight recorders has been recovered, the Kyrgyz prime minister's office said.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan called his Kyrgyz counterpart, Almazbek Atambayev, on Monday to express his sadness at the loss of life.  [img width=500 height=281]http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpspro ... wheel2.gif[/img]

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[img width=500 height=336]http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsp ... 60_map.jpg[/img]
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No GS?

[quote]attempting to land at Kyrgyzstan's main airport in [b]thick fog[/b] crashed[/quote]

Clearly, spending time learning about dewpoint
spread is completely wasted.

And I'm not saying that you wake up in the morning
with the intent of doing one - it's always better to
divert, the earlier the better (unlike AC 624) but it's
a pity that only [i]bad people[/i] that TC hate so much,
still teach 0/0 takeoffs and landings.

Grrr, I hate it when someone builds things in the flight path of an airport.

If I were king there would be nice wide, minimum two mile long, flat areas approaching both ends of every runway. You can grow crops there but you better get those round bales off to the side as soon as they pop out the back of the machine.

"...but it's a pity that only bad people that TC hate so much,
still teach 0/0 takeoffs and landings."

Andy:  it's been decades since I last instructed in the civil sphere, but I don't remember a prohibition against teaching 0/0 take-offs and landings.  Is that something new?

John

Just had a look at the approach plates for this airport - both runways have a Cat2 ILS.

This means that you need an RVR of 350m to start the approach and you need to see something by a DH of 100'.

Weather looks like it was right at these limits - so I don't see an issue with commencing this approach.

I've never flown 747-400 but I would guess it has a similar autopilot system to the 757/767.

Autoland system can operate as a Fail Passive or Fail Operational system.

Fail Operational means that with a failure the system downgrades to Fail Passive and an Autoland can still be made. There is also an "Alert Height" below which you can land even with multiple failures such as engine failure.

Go-around from a Fail Operational approach will be on Autopilot.

Fail Passive means that with a failure an Autoland is no longer possible.

Go-around from a Fail Passive approach will need to be manually flown initially as the Autopilot will disconnect.

Some companies allow a Cat2 approach with a manual landing. I don't like this and I never do it unless it is part of a Simulator exercise. I prefer to make Autolands below Cat1 minimums - this way the procedures are always the same and you only need to set the appropriate minima.

I like keeping things simple - but that's just me.

If everything works as it should then an Autoland fairly straight forward. The problems start when you introduce failures. In some failures you are suddenly required to fly a manual go-around from a very low altitude. This requires accurate Pitch/Thrust control. The aircraft may actually touch down momentarily until thrust overcomes inertia (this is acceptable and part of the certification process).

I did an autoland in December in the aircraft. This is the first one I've done outside the Simulator in about 5 years. It all depends where you fly - I used to do a lot more of them flying in Europe in the Winter months.

Too early to say if any of the above is relevant in this accident - we'll have to wait for the report.

Gees a DH of 100 feet in a 747 your mains are probably on the ground already.

[quote author=ScudRunner link=topic=5407.msg13961#msg13961 date=1484611318]
Gees a DH of 100 feet in a 747 your mains are probably on the ground already.
[/quote]


This right here is proof enough that you bush pilots like to talk and judge way out of your league. No the mains would not be on the ground by DH, the redar altimeter is calibrated for wheel height.

So if the radar altimeter is reading 100 feet from your mains to the ground what is the height of the cockpit windows from the ground in the approach attitude in a 747?

Well, whats the height of a 747's cockpit when on the ground...roughly 20ft? We know that the aircraft has a slight nose up attitude when landing so thanks to trigonometry we know it will be slightly higher than 20ft while the nose is up. so a bit more than 120ft.


Assuming that 20ft estimate is accurate. 

When you are stabilized on the approach in the approach attitude in a 747 you maintain a slight nose up attitude?


How do you determine what a slight nose up attitude should be?