When commenting on....
-
Chuck Ellsworth
......the what it is like outside do you say there is a black hole outside, or do you say it is dark outside?
-
David MacRay
- Posts: 1259
- Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:00 pm
I would say "It's pretty dark out." Lately I would more likely say something like this.
-
Chuck Ellsworth
If taking off at night is called flying into a dark hole then taking off on an daytime IFR departure with a 200 foot ceiling is taking off into a grey hole, correct?
-
Slick Goodlin
- Posts: 721
- Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:46 pm
[quote author=Chuck Ellsworth link=topic=5334.msg13804#msg13804 date=1484167838]
If taking off at night is called flying into a dark hole then taking off on an daytime IFR departure with a 200 foot ceiling is taking off into a grey hole, correct?
[/quote]
More or less. In winter I often depart into a whiteout when there's snow on the ground and poor visibility, which is functionally comparable to a 'black hole' departure at night with all the same dangers present. The difference is that the whiteout is obviously IFR and I (along with my airplane) will be prepared accordingly.
The trap of the 'black hole' departure is that it's expected to be VFR and prepared as such, then on takeoff there are no outside references with which to orient the plane. If you have even a couple of points of light it isn't a black hole and as you at least get some impression of what's going on without having to look inside.
If taking off at night is called flying into a dark hole then taking off on an daytime IFR departure with a 200 foot ceiling is taking off into a grey hole, correct?
[/quote]
More or less. In winter I often depart into a whiteout when there's snow on the ground and poor visibility, which is functionally comparable to a 'black hole' departure at night with all the same dangers present. The difference is that the whiteout is obviously IFR and I (along with my airplane) will be prepared accordingly.
The trap of the 'black hole' departure is that it's expected to be VFR and prepared as such, then on takeoff there are no outside references with which to orient the plane. If you have even a couple of points of light it isn't a black hole and as you at least get some impression of what's going on without having to look inside.
-
Trey Kule
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:19 am
Maybe its just me but I treat every night departure as IMC until the plane is cleaned up and stable in the climb. In VMC it means one has to also keep a lookout for traffic as well, but the pitch and roll are all by the guages.
I understood the problem with a black hole departure was the tendency to pitch down after takeoff based on physilogical senses and lack of visual cues. Seems to me one of the Glass family bumped one in years ago that they attributed this to.
I understood the problem with a black hole departure was the tendency to pitch down after takeoff based on physilogical senses and lack of visual cues. Seems to me one of the Glass family bumped one in years ago that they attributed this to.