Tailstrike. Who needs stick & rudder skill any more?
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:27 pm
by Colonel
Was that a "Good Job?"
I'm sure glad FBW stopped this expensive tailstrike from happening!
Reminds me of when everyone said that you didn't need systems knowledge
any more, with advanced cockpit automation.
Re: Tailstrike. Who needs stick & rudder skill any more?
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:49 am
by Big Pistons Forever
That’s hard to watch….
Re: Tailstrike. Who needs stick & rudder skill any more?
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:37 pm
by Nark
My company didn’t pay for the “flare law.”
We’ve had a few tail strikes over the years. The one that stands out is a brand new FO taking off from a really big city airport, that is close to water.
Checkairmen (captain/PM) called “rotate.” Stud was mesmerized by something, doesn’t rotate. Long story short, the CA rotates, but doesn’t isolate the side stick from the other side, FO finally comes back to reality and rotates as well. The computer sums both inputs and says to the elevator: here ya go! And boom: tailstrike.
I have my thumb on the disconnect button every takeoff and landing.I have had to press (and hold) it a few times.
Re: Tailstrike. Who needs stick & rudder skill any more?
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:37 pm
by Colonel
The computer sums both inputs
Oh dear.
I have my thumb on the disconnect button
Holy shit. Is single pilot really that bad?
Re: Tailstrike. Who needs stick & rudder skill any more?
I’m checkairmen on the 320, so I’m a little unique. Often flying with dudes who’s first flight in the Airbus, is with me and 182 others in the back.
Most do ok for the first few legs, then get better and better. You can tell within 30 seconds whether they have experience other than a 172 and a CRJ.
Upgrade captains: you can tell who drank the Airbus koolaid and sat back to become autopilot commandos the last few years. It’s amazing moving from the right to left seat how far off their eyesight perspective becomes. Don’t worry, centerlines are for professional’s.
Re: Tailstrike. Who needs stick & rudder skill any more?
We’ve had a few tail strikes over the years. The one that stands out is a brand new FO taking off from a really big city airport, that is close to water.
Checkairmen (captain/PM) called “rotate.” Stud was mesmerized by something, doesn’t rotate. Long story short, the CA rotates, but doesn’t isolate the side stick from the other side, FO finally comes back to reality and rotates as well. The computer sums both inputs and says to the elevator: here ya go! And boom: tailstrike.
I have my thumb on the disconnect button every takeoff and landing.I have had to press (and hold) it a few times.
That’s interesting, any other good stories/gotchas that are different than normal aircraft?
Re: Tailstrike. Who needs stick & rudder skill any more?
I have my thumb on the disconnect button every takeoff and landing.I have had to press (and hold) it a few times.
It's such an interesting system.
What would happen if the FO somehow ends up in a full down input and your stick is neutral and you press the override button. Does the nose shoot back right away to the zero neutral flight path angle that's requested by your stick?
Re: Tailstrike. Who needs stick & rudder skill any more?
What would happen if the FO somehow ends up in a full down input and your stick is neutral and you press the override button. Does the nose shoot back right away to the zero neutral flight path angle that's requested by your stick?
No, IIRC the stick commands a rate not an angle.
Well, to a certain point anyways. I think the limits are around 33° bank and maybe 15°-ish in pitch before it changes over from rate to angle. It’s been a while since I read up on it but don’t worry I’m not responsible for anything like that right now.
Re: Tailstrike. Who needs stick & rudder skill any more?
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:30 pm
by Colonel
Well, the important thing is that the operators of this complex system understand it.
Re: Tailstrike. Who needs stick & rudder skill any more?
I have my thumb on the disconnect button every takeoff and landing.I have had to press (and hold) it a few times.
It's such an interesting system.
What would happen if the FO somehow ends up in a full down input and your stick is neutral and you press the override button. Does the nose shoot back right away to the zero neutral flight path angle that's requested by your stick?
Slick did a good job, it doesn’t snap back.
Quick run down on the Airbus flight controls. (Dig in this gets weird…)
Pitch (forward and back stick) controls the G load of the plane. You want to climb? You pull back, the computer says “hey deflect the elevator this much,” in order to maintain a climb rate.
Roll: left and right on the side stick, gives you a roll rate (NOT AILERON DEFLECTION). Deflect the side stick to the 25* angle mark and let go of the stick, it’ll stay at 25* until you roll opposite controls to level it. Anything past 33* and let go, it’ll roll back to 33* and stay there. It won’t let you roll past 67* (I’d have to look in the book, but I think that’s the limit).
As for pitch, you’re limited to 30* up and 17* down.
Crosswind landings are different. You can’t cross control (not that you’d really want to a whole lot anyway…) it.
I would say, whomever thought of this should be kicked in the nuts, but I think that distinction goes to the Boeing MCAS designer.
I don’t trust an airline pilot that goes to work to “fly” the plane. I like the Airbus over the 737, because it pays my bills to fly the 180, and restore the Beech. I’d say the same thing about the 737 over the Airbus, if I flew it instead.