Scudrunners

I get approached with this problem a lot. Happened today. It usually is some form of "My buddy has been taking flight training for X hours and hasn't soloed/flight tested yet and is getting frustrated, what can they do?" Usually X is a number way beyond the average for these activities. Now while one would like to blame these episodes on shitty instructing, its almost never that simple. Its a bit beyond me why people stick with something that isn't working. I mean winners never quit, and quitters never win, but if you never win and never quit, you're an idiot. When you delve into these scenarios there's a host of problems. So much so, I'm loathe to get involved anymore, from the instructing side its likely it will be so problematic to solve, and you will get so much grief out of your best efforts, its just not worth it.

Now to this problem, there is no good or easy solution. One could go on about sunk costs, but if you're in this spot, you either quit or push through. If you're going to push through and want it to be different you have to take it upon yourself to change. Will probably mean hearing a lot of things you won't like. Or you can also stay the course and just be happy with spending lots of time and money becoming a pilot. No more complaining if you don't want to take agency in it.

Many people though may be in the process and aren't too far along to be saved. If you are wondering if you're one of those people, maybe I can say a bit that will help you prevent becoming one of the above people.

First, keep notes and records of your flight training so you know what you have done. Its hard to help you if any record of what you've done is strictly an oral history. That's great you say you did 20 hours of training. If there is no record, you are back to square one. You should be participating in the record your instructor is making. If they put something in there, you should know. Preferably have access to your own copy. You should also have a training syllabus to refer to. If your training deviates from it, you should be asking questions why. Not that it can't, but there better be good reasons.

Second, don't be afraid of changing instructors or airplanes. Tough remember a second opinion is just that. Sometimes the differences between two instructors can highlight what you're having trouble with. On that subject, don't be afraid of changing schools either, but be up front with the schools about that. Mostly so they keep your records continuous, but if some place has a problem with it, well maybe you shouldn't be training there in the first place. You're not the school's property.

Thirdly, keep a mind to evaluating how your training is going. Aside from a school's syllabus, the FTM should be reasonably adhered to. If you're wondering the Flight Instructor Guide can also be consulted and the school or instructor's lesson plans shouldn't stray too far from the subject matter.

Last, be honest with yourself about how much you're committed to the process. Lots of people their flight training isn't a priority and it suffers for it. It has to beat out your golf game for time commitment. You should be spending two hours of time for every hour of flight time in some fashion towards this project. If you're not, your progress will suffer accordingly.

The record of instructional activities is called, oddly enough, the Pilot Training Record. All flights and ground school must be entered into the PTR. The instructor should also be making comments ref progress in the PTR. The Flight Instructor’s Guide contains the lesson plans (at least for the PPL) that the instructor should be following, unless you’re in an integrated program (but even then the schools approved syllabus will look something like the FIG).
In terms of learning about flying, the FTM will give you the basic maneuvers from the TC perspective, but if you really want to learn what’s what about airplanes you can’t beat William Kershner’s books.

Squaretail wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:15 pm

That's great you say you did 20 hours of training. If there is no record, you are back to square one.

That's a bit of a stretch. You still flew 20 hours, you still have the skills - hopefully. The records can be restored based on the aircraft journey log. If the aircraft doesn't have records, there are bigger things going on...

The PTR stays with the school, but the student should keep his pilot logbook
up to date and in his possession with each page signed off by the instructor
as it is filled up.

Double entries. Get used to the paperwork. After every flight, the instructor
fills out the PTR and the student pilot logbook, which the student takes home
with him after every flight.

Don't let the pilot logbook get behind.

The records can be restored based on the aircraft journey log

Oof. More likely the FTU's Daily Flight Sheets, which are turfed after a couple years.

X is a number way beyond the average for these activities

Back on topic .. when a student isn't progressing, you need to dig into WHY.

Is the problem with the student? Aptitude? Motivation? Frequency of training?

Is the problem with the instructor? Inexperienced?

Often a change of instructor is a good idea when a plateau is reached. We all
have seen students go around the circuit, hour after hour, struggling with landings,
and then they switch instructors and immediately go solo. That doesn't mean
the first instructor was bad - just that they didn't have enough tools in the bag
of tricks to deal with that particular student. That comes with experience.

The Big Hammer is a change of school. This is actually reflecting a problem
with the leadership of the school - specifically the Chief Flight Instructor.

Students whine, but in the long run, changing instructors (and schools) is
always beneficial to them, because every different instructor will teach you
something new, and every different aircraft type that you fly, increases your
skill and knowledge.

I am a bad person, because I secretly (ok, not so secretly) suspect that no
one teaches anything. Sometimes people learn, but this is only very loosely
correlated with the activity of teaching.

Sometimes, lots of teaching goes on, and no learning occurs. Sometimes,
no teaching goes on, and lots of learning occurs. This is the goddamned truth.

I privately think that the main purpose of the flight instructor, is to stop the
student from killing themselves (and damaging the aircraft) while the student
teaches himself to fly.

This is sure to offend many in the flight training business, whom have spent
many years lovingly shoving melted butter up their students @sses.

But keep in mind that BD Maule - a non-pilot - bought a book, built an airplane
and taught himself to fly, and most smug Canadians would consider him quite
a redneck if they had met him.

So, by the law of inequalities, if a smug urbane Canadian is superior to a redneck
like BD Maule, they ought to just as easily - or more so, because of their superiority
to a dumb redneck like BD - buy a book, build an airplane, and teach themselves to
fly it, right?

People teach themselves to fly. Sorry if that hurts anyone's feelings.

I taught myself all sorts of things in aviation. Formation. Aerobatics. Aerobatics
down low. Formation aerobatics. Inverted formation. Inverted formation aerobatics.
IFR. How to fly a Piaggio Royal Gull. How to do surface aerobatics in a new type on
your first solo flight in it. How to teach flying a jet to a piston pilot.

The list is endless of sh1t that I have had to teach myself, and people think I'm a moron
that doesn't deserve to renew his instructor rating, so why can't you do it, too?

Learn to learn. Don't expect everyone to fucking spoon feed you every morsel
that you eat. Try to be a little less infantile.

I had one of them students well on his way to his PPL PHD back when I started instructing. I inherited him from the instructor I replaced and quickly found out he was just being dropped off at the airport to be babysat every so often. I gave it my all when he was there (one of us had to) but I definitely didn’t go out of my way to pursue bookings with him.

All this to say both parties, instructor and student, have to want it to begin with.

digits wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:52 pm

Squaretail wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:15 pm

That's great you say you did 20 hours of training. If there is no record, you are back to square one.

That's a bit of a stretch. You still flew 20 hours, you still have the skills - hopefully. The records can be restored based on the aircraft journey log. If the aircraft doesn't have records, there are bigger things going on...

I was talking in terms of paper. No one gets a short cut to the minimum requirements because of time they may have done. Maybe that's unfair, but its the way it is. Don't count on chasing down a journey log, planes get sold, people move on, and personally if I don't know who you are, I ain't letting you see a journey log. So lets say it can be problematic.

Colonel wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:52 pm

Is the problem with the student? Aptitude? Motivation? Frequency of training?

Is the problem with the instructor? Inexperienced?

Sometimes it can be all of the above.

I secretly (ok, not so secretly) suspect that no
one teaches anything. Sometimes people learn, but this is only very loosely
correlated with the activity of teaching.

Sometimes, lots of teaching goes on, and no learning occurs. Sometimes,
no teaching goes on, and lots of learning occurs. This is the goddamned truth.

I privately think that the main purpose of the flight instructor, is to stop the
student from killing themselves (and damaging the aircraft) while the student
teaches himself to fly.

Generally I would concur. I don't think there's such a thing as teaching, you can only help others to learn.

This is sure to offend many in the flight training business, whom have spent
many years lovingly shoving melted butter up their students @sses.

Keep in mind a lot of students seek this out. Lots of students are hiring a buddy not an instructor. I've had students in the past leave because I wasn't complimentary enough. To quote Viper, I'm not here to blow sunshine up your ass. But this goes to the extreme where I've seen some students who while on one hand don't think they're getting good instruction, but can't say anything bad about said instructor, and often reluctant to leave. Some won't leave. Its a bizarre dependency. Like I said, some people can't be helped at that stage. The flight training is too far gone, and the student is a willing participant in the problem.

People teach themselves to fly. Sorry if that hurts anyone's feelings.

While the above was probably aimed at me, I fully agree. Clyde Cessna taught himself to fly too, though you probably don't want to bend 13 airplanes in the process, which brings up the main thing the instructor is supposed to do, make sure the student doesn't hurt themselves. I'd personally like to test the experiment with a reasonably smart individual to solely give them the book, and only ride along to stop them from doing anything hazardous. I doubt you'd get any volunteers, but it would be interesting.

Learn to learn. Don't expect everyone to fucking spoon feed you every morsel
that you eat. Try to be a little less infantile.

Well this is where the question arises in the 100 hour (or more) student. At what point does this student realize things have went off the rails? Do they even get to this realization? I didn't start this thread to help them, its just a warning to those already in the process.

the above was probably aimed at me

er, no. I didn't know it was possible to hurt your feelings?

I'd personally like to test the experiment with a reasonably smart individual to solely give them the book

It's been done! How soon people forget the "barefoot bandit" ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colton_Harris_Moore

He started living in the wild at the age of seven ...

It is believed that he learned how to fly small planes by reading aircraft manuals, handbooks, watching a "How to fly a small airplane" DVD, and playing flight simulator computer games

... from an airport in Bloomington, Ind., and flew it all the way to Great Abaco Island in the Bahamas

Most people probably have more education, and think they're brighter than him.

Ok, so why do you need so much flight training? Why can't you just learn it in one weekend?

To be fair, the barefoot bandit has never landed an airplane without wrecking it as I recall. So I mean there is some purpose to the training. I mean this seems like an expensive way to learn just to cheap out on an instructor.



I mean I've learned a lot of things on my own, but it is useful to have an example to observe, and I can't discount that there has been some substantial value to some of the instruction I've had. If there's one thing I have learned in this world, I ain't a natural at anything, so to pretend I haven't had some assistance would be disingenuous of me.

er, no. I didn't know it was possible to hurt your feelings?

Its not, but I do take note of shots that come my way.