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License to learn
Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:48 pm
by trey kule
Back in the old days, when a person received their PPL, their instructor, after congratulating them, gave them the sage advice that it was a “license to learn”.
At that point, our PPL was on their own to build time and learn the lessons.
Flash forward to today. GPS has made navigation so easy for a new PPL. So easy, in fact, that it is easy for the basic nav knowledge to fade into memory. Not really a good thing, but it is what it is.
Despite that, the requirements for PPL XC has been increased over the years, and 5 hours of IF training was tossed in.
Training, seems to be almost never ending, but PIC , where a pilot is allowed to make their own decisions and hopefully learn from them seems to be taking a backseat. Fine for those who are going to jump from flight training to right seat assistant as they have a Captain there to make the decisions, and hopefully absorb the lesson. For those going out in the non airline world to SP ops however, this low focus on PIC time, seems to me, to be a bit lacking.
I realize in our modern world there are even community college courses that teach us how to walk. (I am not making that up). But pilot decision making seems such an important thing to me that I do not understand why it is being ignored. The CRM, SP, PDM courses, as far as I know, have never really being evaluated. They are a feel good, and you can’t argue with safety closed issue, in terms of actually objectively looking at their effectiveness.
You simply can not train for every possible scenario,
Re: License to learn
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:09 am
by TundraTire
trey kule wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:48 pm
You simply can not train for every possible scenario,
But isn't that how the military does things?
Re: License to learn
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:16 pm
by Nark
TundraTire wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:09 am
trey kule wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:48 pm
You simply can not train for every possible scenario,
But isn't that how the military does things?
I can attest, that is not the case.
New pilots aren’t given much rope to hang themselves with. In multi crew aircraft they will learn the rope with an experienced PIC. As they grow as aviators, the crew mix becomes different and the sum of experience averages out.
For single pilot dudes, they’re not given the keys to the jet and sent out ready for war. A brand new F16 pilot will spend a year or two qualifying in various profiles, so by the time he fires the missile for the first time in combat, he’ll have a handful of time under his belt.
Re: License to learn
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:30 pm
by Liquid_Charlie
A brand new F16 pilot will spend a year or two qualifying in various profiles, so by the time he fires the missile for the first time in combat, he’ll have a handful of time under his bel
Little off topic but did USAF ever employ/contract civilian pilots to fly F15 during the 2nd golf war.
Re: License to learn
Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:29 pm
by Nark
I’m unaware if they did. But doesn’t pass the smell test.
The US is signatory to the Geneva conventions. Employing an F15, by a “civilian” would violate a few paragraphs with the convention.
There are a number of dudes who teach the F15 in Saudi Arabia, but those are non-combatants.
Now, don’t confuse that with civilian pilots flying all sorts of “non-combat” roles. I know a bunch of guys flying King Airs with funky antennas and med-evac helicopters. Even a group that fly’s helicopters moving their own folks. None of which are offensive roles.
Re: License to learn
Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:18 pm
by Scudrunner
Maybe your thinking of Blackwater contractors? Not sure if they had helicopter mounted guns or not but that’s about as close as I know to a “civilian” pilot being armed.
I have noticed a lack of mentorship at the puppy mill charter/ smaller airlines. Blind leading the blind and companies trying to dumb the operations down to the lowest pilots ability.
mentorship I feel is a lost art.
Re: License to learn
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:37 am
by Nark
I’m being vague for a reason
Very true for the get-in, get-out operations. As a regional pilot, we had “0” people in leadership/ management roles that had any sort of leadership skills. It was always “your” fault and never asked the question “why.” When on time performance is the only metric they care about, safety, as a function of PIC, only gets in the way.
Graduating to the big leagues, my chief pilot is approachable. I don’t know how he ever sleeps, since all the pilots buy him a cup of coffee when they pass through. Pretty good metric if you ask me: your employees actually want to see you.
I like to think I carry that about me when I hang out at the local airport. My hangar door is open and a lot of folks stop in to say hello and shoot the shit. Perhaps I should bring a coffee pot...
Re: License to learn
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:29 am
by “Bob”
trey kule wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:48 pm
Back in the old days, when a person received their PPL, their instructor, after congratulating them, gave them the sage advice that it was a “license to learn”.
At that point, our PPL was on their own to build time and learn the lessons.
Flash forward to today. GPS has made navigation so easy for a new PPL. So easy, in fact, that it is easy for the basic nav knowledge to fade into memory. Not really a good thing, but it is what it is.
Despite that, the requirements for PPL XC has been increased over the years, and 5 hours of IF training was tossed in.
Training, seems to be almost never ending, but PIC , where a pilot is allowed to make their own decisions and hopefully learn from them seems to be taking a backseat. Fine for those who are going to jump from flight training to right seat assistant as they have a Captain there to make the decisions, and hopefully absorb the lesson. For those going out in the non airline world to SP ops however, this low focus on PIC time, seems to me, to be a bit lacking.
I realize in our modern world there are even community college courses that teach us how to walk. (I am not making that up). But pilot decision making seems such an important thing to me that I do not understand why it is being ignored. The CRM, SP, PDM courses, as far as I know, have never really being evaluated. They are a feel good, and you can’t argue with safety closed issue, in terms of actually objectively looking at their effectiveness.
You simply can not train for every possible scenario,
And why don’t teach cursive writing in schools anymore........ ? (Even though they still teach cursive writing in schools).
Re: License to learn
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:34 pm
by Liquid_Charlie
Time marches on and things change. Mentoring, while a wonderful thing, is old and passée. It's also a fact that it's been erased from multi-crew environments due to SOP. They look to their left thinking they can do it better than you and get out of my seat old man.
As far as the first job and being single pilot there are very few old timers around who can even bother with the "new attitudes"
This is not targeting all new pilots because obviously some great talent surviving the puppy mill schools. Sadly there are some who makeup for their short comings with attitude. Tragically this group seems to set the bar.
Re: License to learn
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:33 pm
by Big Pistons Forever
Part of the problem is FTU’s have become extremely risk adverse. In the 1980’s one of my PPL students celebrated his relatively new license by renting a school airplane for a month. He was bored with just flying around the local area and wanted an adventure. He left the West Coast and went East to Halifax, South to Key West, West to San Diego and then home.
He checked in with the school everyday but otherwise made all his own flight planning decisions, and learned a ton of lessons on real world flying
Can you imagine what reception you would get at any big city flight school if a new PPL asked to do that today ......