Scudrunners

On the other board this topic went to shits a few years back. Lets try it again here with some good knowledge. Of course good training on this is needed.

Sample:
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Oh by the way @scud, can you please add the embed YT option to the forum when you get the chance, thanks
[color=red]Tried a few times usually crashes the server for some stupid nerd reasons, ill admit I have been slacking off with summer stuff but I hope to get it done soon.[/color]

Good subject.

Turn backs are dependent on the level of flying skills of the pilot,  the aircraft being flown and the circumstances at the moment.

For sure it is not something one does in a moment of panic and insufficient energy for the maneuver.

Sail plane turn backs are different than trying to turn back in a high drag low performance light aircraft at two hundred feet..

EFATO turnback can be divided into 3 phases

1) turnaround
2) glide back to departure end of runway
3) downwind landing

Most people think #1 requires the skill of
Bob Hoover, and that just ain't so.  You give
me a pilot of average skills, we do ONE (count
it ONE) flight of wingovers, and he's good to go.

#2 can be tricky because most aircraft descend
at a steeper angle than they climb.  What helps
here is

- Vx departure
- long runway
- headwind

#3 can be easy or hard, depending.  The headwind
that helped you glide back to the departure end of
the runway can now bite you in the ass.  The longer
the runway, the easier it is.

A tailwind on landing is no big deal, although people
make it out to be one.  All you need is lots of runway.

Good example:  I land L39's with a final approach
speed of 125 knots on 4000 feet of runway.  Call it
120 knots groundspeed with 5 knots of headwind.

A 172 approaches at 65 knots, call it 60 knots
groundspeed with 5 knots of headwind.  I can
take 60 (COUNT IT, [b]SIXTY[/b]) knots of tailwind
with a 172 and still land on 4000 feet of runway.

I always laugh about IFR crap when people say
a runway with an ILS is "unusable" with 25
knots of tailwind, and that a circling approach
must be conducted (which it can't be at Cat 1
mins).  You know, the usual stupid examiner
gotcha.

Just watch me land with 25 knots of tailwind.
Might upset the four bars.  Like I care.

My father once landed an F-104 at Cold Lake
after hydraulic failure with no BLC.  Unbelievably
fast approach and touchdown.  Faster than the
tires and drag chute were rated.  A little delicacy
was required, but no problem.  Maybe it would
have been, for a four bars (shrug).

PS  Here is the bible on the turnback, written by
Dave Rogers:

http://jeremy.zawodny.com/flying/turnback.pdf

TC doesn't think much of the USN Academy,
but I don't they care, either.

[quote]My father once landed an F-104 at Cold Lake
after hydraulic failure with no BLC.[/quote]

Thanks..... "What is BLC?" I thought, quick Google seach on F-104 BLC and I spent the last 2 hours reading Starfighter stories! Good job everyone else is on vacation in here.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_ ... r#Airframe

[quote]The small, highly loaded wing resulted in an unacceptably high landing speed, so a Boundary Layer Control System (BLCS) of blown flaps bled engine exhaust over the trailing-edge flaps to provide some STOL-type lift capabilities, making landings safer.

However, the system proved to be a maintenance problem in service. Also, landing without the BLCS engaged could be a harrowing experience[/quote]

Wasn't exactly "engine exhaust"...

wiki is worth what you paid for it.

If it bugs you enough, edit it.

[quote author=Colonel link=topic=588.msg2215#msg2215 date=1438709223]
#3 can be easy or hard, depending.  The headwind
that helped you glide back to the departure end of
the runway can now bite you in the ass.  The longer
the runway, the easier it is.

A tailwind on landing is no big deal, although people
make it out to be one.  All you need is lots of runway.

Good example:  I land L39's with a final approach
speed of 125 knots on 4000 feet of runway.  Call it
120 knots groundspeed with 5 knots of headwind.

A 172 approaches at 65 knots, call it 60 knots
groundspeed with 5 knots of headwind.  I can
take 60 (COUNT IT, [b]SIXTY[/b]) knots of tailwind
with a 172 and still land on 4000 feet of runway.

I always laugh about IFR crap when people say
a runway with an ILS is "unusable" with 25
knots of tailwind, and that a circling approach
must be conducted (which it can't be at Cat 1
mins).  You know, the usual stupid examiner
gotcha.

Just watch me land with 25 knots of tailwind.
Might upset the four bars.  Like I care.[/quote]

C'mon Colonel we both know you that you won't be operating a C-172 in 60 knots of wind and you certainly won't be landing it with that kind of tailwind. 60 knots will flip the aircraft over in no time on the ground. I'm familar with a case where a C-172 flipped in much less wind than that.

Had a quick look at the landing data for a large jet - every 5 knots of tailwind increases the landing distance by 10%. That is why there are maximum tailwind limits for large jets. You rapidly run out of runway.

There a a couple of other limitations that are important in the "4-Bar" World (and probably your L39 as well).

Tire speed limits - there is a maximum groundspeed that the tires are rated for. Tires for my aircraft are $8000 each.

Brake Energy Limits - It takes a [b]lot[/b] of energy to stop 550,000lbs travelling at 145knots. As the groundspeed increases the energy required to stop increases exponentially. I've been told a brake unit for my aircraft costs $250,000.

Here's what happens when Brake Energy Limits are exceeded. There are photos online of the damage.

[url=[/url]

An ILS with a 25knot tailwind will give result in 2 exceedences - maximum tailwind limitation and rate of descent above 1000'/min (unstabilised approach). These kinds of things will get you fired.

We fly to very strict limits in the "4-Bar" World.

[quote]An ILS with a 25knot tailwind will give result in 2 exceedences[/quote]

Well, as Larry King said when asked what kind
of underwear he wears:  "Depends".

If I am flying a bugsmasher (single or twin prop)
to an ILS to a 10,000 foot runway (quite common)
I will happily take a 25 knot tailwind to landing.

No problem flying the approach, and no problem
geting stopped, either.

I know experience, knowledge and skill doesn't
count for much any more in aviation, but when
you get used to landing on 4000 feet out of a 125
knot approach, 10,000 feet starts to look pretty
generous.

Do you fly approaches in your jets on the back
side of the power curve?  If you are willing to do
so in the L39 (not necessary in L29) you can get
it stopped in 3000 feet at sea level density altitude
or thereabouts.

As far as using up the hardware goes ... I am
far easier on the machinery than the four-bars
around here, who chew up and spit out aluminum
so fast it makes me cry.

Retired four-bars from AC tried to fly a Maule
here (not mine).  Destroyed it.  Another couple
of four-bars took over my old 421 and trashed
both GTSIO-520 engines in a year at $75k each.
It used to be the nicest airplane around, and
the four-bars turned it into a "junker" (their
words).  It goes on, and on.

Makes me cry, to see that perfectly functional
hardware destroyed by four-bars.  Maybe I'm
not allowed to mention it, I dunno.  Might hurt
some feelings.

Meanwhile, I am flying the same Maule (and
engine) after 44 years.  No typo - 44 years on
the same airframe and engine and cylinders
which I do [i]training[/i] on:

[img][/img]

Must be a coincidence.  Remember, skill,
knowledge and experience don't count for
anything in aviation any more.  Only SOP's
do.

[img][/img]

I won't lie. I would like to see someone light the brakes on fire in a single engine plane.
The brakes, not the tires.