Try it, sometime.
[url=http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 7q0030.pdf]http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 7q0030.pdf[/url]
1) busted altitudes
2) didn't look outside
3) [i]turned[/i] to avoid collision
4) language proficiency
5) PTT comm TX problem
6) busy airspace
Sigh.
LOOK OUTSIDE
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Slick Goodlin
- Posts: 721
- Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:46 pm
...unless you're in IMC, then [i]don't[/i] look outside. Flying is so confusing sometimes.
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anofly
- Posts: 161
- Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:26 pm
yes always use up or down to miss another plane, but how do we make that instinct? I am not sure it is for me , after 5000 odd hours...i guess you have to practice in your head, cause it is not something we practice very much, missing other airplanes.When confronted by a seagull once i froze and hit it... i am none too proud of that
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Colonel
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am
[quote]how do we make that instinct?[/quote]
Superb question.
First step, like a drunk, is to admit there is a problem.
Second step, is to discuss the problem at the blackboard
and come to the theoretical agreement that there is a
better way to do things.
Third step, is to develop new instincts. This is really hard.
I spent many, many years teaching people to:
1) using their feet (instead of the ailerons) to control
the yaw of an aircraft, both with the tires on the pavement
(tailwheel landing) and in the air (going slowly).
2) stop pulling back on the stick when the nose drops at
high alpha
The only way I could teach people new instincts, was
practice. Over and over and over again, you had to
immerse them in the situation, and wait patiently
until they instinctively reacted correctly.
The annoying thing about the above, is that it has
absolutely nothing to do with flight, or physics,
and it's all about psychology which is a horribly
mushy subject, but unfortunately that's what makes
the most important component of the aircraft function.
As you point out, there are other, very bad and
powerful instincts that people have, such as
3) turning to avoid collision, and
4) freezing at the controls.
I concluded that #4 was the reason that there is
a large, heavy metal fire extinguisher installed in
all aircraft - you can hit the pilot with it, when he
freezes up or worse, pulls as hard as he can on the
flight controls.
Far, far better to let go of everything. See Beggs-Mueller.
Superb question.
First step, like a drunk, is to admit there is a problem.
Second step, is to discuss the problem at the blackboard
and come to the theoretical agreement that there is a
better way to do things.
Third step, is to develop new instincts. This is really hard.
I spent many, many years teaching people to:
1) using their feet (instead of the ailerons) to control
the yaw of an aircraft, both with the tires on the pavement
(tailwheel landing) and in the air (going slowly).
2) stop pulling back on the stick when the nose drops at
high alpha
The only way I could teach people new instincts, was
practice. Over and over and over again, you had to
immerse them in the situation, and wait patiently
until they instinctively reacted correctly.
The annoying thing about the above, is that it has
absolutely nothing to do with flight, or physics,
and it's all about psychology which is a horribly
mushy subject, but unfortunately that's what makes
the most important component of the aircraft function.
As you point out, there are other, very bad and
powerful instincts that people have, such as
3) turning to avoid collision, and
4) freezing at the controls.
I concluded that #4 was the reason that there is
a large, heavy metal fire extinguisher installed in
all aircraft - you can hit the pilot with it, when he
freezes up or worse, pulls as hard as he can on the
flight controls.
Far, far better to let go of everything. See Beggs-Mueller.
-
Colonel
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am
re: turning to avoid a collision, being a really bad idea ...
Yes, wings level up/down is almost always a better idea
because airplanes can't collide, if they are at different
altitudes.
Note that you do better standing on the shoulders of
giants. In this case, if at all possible, you will do better
by letting the big old earth help you, instead of fighting
it as well as the other aircraft.
If you are upright, and you wish to let the earth's gravity
help you, that means negative G.
Pilots hate negative G, but when faced with a mid-air
collision, wings-level -5G's can be a really good idea.
I would be dead right now, if I had not decided to do
exactly that, in around a tenth of a second.
Yes, wings level up/down is almost always a better idea
because airplanes can't collide, if they are at different
altitudes.
Note that you do better standing on the shoulders of
giants. In this case, if at all possible, you will do better
by letting the big old earth help you, instead of fighting
it as well as the other aircraft.
If you are upright, and you wish to let the earth's gravity
help you, that means negative G.
Pilots hate negative G, but when faced with a mid-air
collision, wings-level -5G's can be a really good idea.
I would be dead right now, if I had not decided to do
exactly that, in around a tenth of a second.
-
Colonel
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am
Yet another lesson to learn from this mid-air ...
If the pilots had done what ATC had instructed - flown at different
altitudes - this accident could not have happened.
Getting a departure clearance from ATC at a large, busy airport is
sometimes not much different than listen to a really annoying
auctioneer on TV.
ATC drone on endlessly, and try their best to conceal and obscure
the most important part of what they say, which is
DO NOT CLIMB ABOVE 1.5
Everyone does, of course, when they are learning. They refuse to
LOWER THE NOSE and as they speed up, lift increases and they
blow through their assigned altitude because they are paying
attention to much less important stuff.
There's an incredibly important meta-lesson here for pilots, which
is that [b]people do their best to obscure and hide the most important[/b]
[b]information[/b].
NOTAMs are a great example, of people on the ground trying to
kill you by obscuring what you need to know, with total garbage.
Flight manuals are another great example of people on the ground
trying to kill pilots and pax, by intentionally hiding and misrepresenting
critical information.
Spot the pattern? One of the most important skills a pilot has, is to
be able to sift through a mountain of trash and ignore the stupid people
on the ground shouting at him, and pay attention to what is important.
If the pilots had done what ATC had instructed - flown at different
altitudes - this accident could not have happened.
Getting a departure clearance from ATC at a large, busy airport is
sometimes not much different than listen to a really annoying
auctioneer on TV.
ATC drone on endlessly, and try their best to conceal and obscure
the most important part of what they say, which is
DO NOT CLIMB ABOVE 1.5
Everyone does, of course, when they are learning. They refuse to
LOWER THE NOSE and as they speed up, lift increases and they
blow through their assigned altitude because they are paying
attention to much less important stuff.
There's an incredibly important meta-lesson here for pilots, which
is that [b]people do their best to obscure and hide the most important[/b]
[b]information[/b].
NOTAMs are a great example, of people on the ground trying to
kill you by obscuring what you need to know, with total garbage.
Flight manuals are another great example of people on the ground
trying to kill pilots and pax, by intentionally hiding and misrepresenting
critical information.
Spot the pattern? One of the most important skills a pilot has, is to
be able to sift through a mountain of trash and ignore the stupid people
on the ground shouting at him, and pay attention to what is important.
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Liquid Charlie
- Posts: 524
- Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:34 pm
In the backwards part of Canadian Aviation (NWO and Manitoba) it's a fucking free for all and being a person who was never subjected to +500 (dating myself) until recently I am struggling with it. It seems that people figure that if they are +500 that means they are VFR - even in IMC (uncontrolled airspace) and not being in Northern Airspace (which is another issue that North America seems so stupid in the rules) everyone is running around on altimeter settings that can have them in error by enough to cancel +500, especially if someone is slack at altitude control. I mostly stick to my even altitudes even on a clear day(uncontrolled airspace gives me that option) I encounter so many at+500 in IMC it is scary. I ask WHY? and the most common answer is "I only have VFR fuel" -- are you fucking kidding me!!! or the total ignorance one " I didn't file IFR" another example of fear and ignorance of regulations impacting safety.
Looking outside is a lost art.
Looking outside is a lost art.
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Slick Goodlin
- Posts: 721
- Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:46 pm
[quote author=Colonel Sanders link=topic=8994.msg24631#msg24631 date=1536414986]
Note that you do better standing on the shoulders of giants. In this case, if at all possible, you will do better by letting the big old earth help you, instead of fighting it as well as the other aircraft.
[/quote]
Birds do this by instinct, if they see you coming they almost always dive away. For that reason I might suggest that if it’s a bird strike you’re looking to avoid consider a quick climb.
Note that you do better standing on the shoulders of giants. In this case, if at all possible, you will do better by letting the big old earth help you, instead of fighting it as well as the other aircraft.
[/quote]
Birds do this by instinct, if they see you coming they almost always dive away. For that reason I might suggest that if it’s a bird strike you’re looking to avoid consider a quick climb.
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