Day dreaming about airplanes.

[David MacRay]

Except as Slick wrote, even a few experienced professional folks doing pre-purchase inspections can miss something that won’t be allowed on a Canadian registered plane because it is without proof of origin.

A lot sketchy things can be done to a machine in ten years. Just because you are changing a plane over to owner maintenance does not exempt you from using mostly certified aircraft parts.

If there are a lot of non compliant items installed during field mods, on an “old bird” such as say a 2014 C-172, that need to be replaced with certified parts to get a C of A, if you’re not able to afford those parts...

You might have imported some really nice lawn art.

[David MacRay]

Here’s bargain of the day.

https://www.controller.com/listing/for- ... e-aircraft

J-3 $35,000 US.

Remember when you could get a four seater for that sort of price?

[TwinOtterFan]

Well a little update I guess, I'm still waiting on a pre purchase inspection on a '46 Champ. Shop 1 told me they weren't interested in even looking at a plane that old and it was probably no good anyway.

Shop 2 didn't answer the phone.

Shop 3 said no problem but was busy this week and will get back to me.

I've been looking into this a lot lately and other than upgrading the motor, and then adding an alternator and battery is there any other way to run transponder? This is the one thing that keeps me circling back to an amateur built.

Also with ADS B a few years away is there going to be a way to add that? There are a lot of Champs and similar aircraft in my area and I'm curious how they will all be affected.

[Slick Goodlin]

Also with ADS B a few years away is there going to be a way to add that? There are a lot of Champs and similar aircraft in my area and I'm curious how they will all be affected.

IIRC in the US any aircraft originally built without a charging system is ADSB exempt, hopefully we see the same here.

If you do go with a certified Champ and upgrade the engine some day, an STC for a C-85 with the -12 accessory case is probably what you want. That case gets you the possibility for a starter which seems to be popular. Personally I’m fine with swinging props myself but YMMV.

[TwinOtterFan]

If you do go with a certified Champ and upgrade the engine some day, an STC for a C-85 with the -12 accessory case is probably what you want. That case gets you the possibility for a starter which seems to be popular. Personally I’m fine with swinging props myself but YMMV.

I have no issues with the hand propping I just want to buy something I can keep and enjoy even after my license but also build time for my CPL.

I was chatting with some other students and instructors today and they all were telling me that they mostly time build at night not only because it is easier to get a plane to book but also because it is much easier to get your xCountry time in and it looks better on their resume for getting a job later. This combined with the transponder are what have me second guessing the Champ. My original intent was to get the Champ and use it to time build solo and still rent from the FTU for dual. But if I am renting dual and for night maybe its not worth it?

I know the Champ will still be fun after I'm licensed but now not sure it will be as functional while training. Are night time Xcountry hours regarded as that much better than daytime Xcountry hours?

[Squaretail]

1) ADS B only matters if you’re going to be in controlled airspace. Most of Canada isn’t controlled, especially at Champ altitudes.

2) Increasingly, my feeling is, it will be harder to get work on fabric covered airplanes done, especially those like the champ that have a certain amount of wood construction too. Any shop that has a “wood and fabric” guy its usually someone ancient who comes out of whatever retirement they enjoy to do the work. Some shops specialize in old airplanes, but they are becoming rarer.

3) Night cross country only really matters for getting your ATPL. So unless your career is burning towards a right seat somewhere, you will more than accumulate the time on the journey there. Depends on what your long term goals are.

[TwinOtterFan]

Long term goal is medivac, for now just doing my PPL, CPL, then instructor, figured I would add Multi-IFR after while of being an instructor. No interest in airline and perfectly okay going from instructor to right seat for a medivac job. There are some upgraded Champs around for sale and I have seen some Chiefs with full electrics, maybe that would be the better compromise for me.

[Slick Goodlin]

Perhaps what you really want is a Cessna 120 or 140. I can’t imagine why you’d need flaps but lots of people want them, making 120s a little more of a bargain.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Good hands and feet never go out of fashion. Lower performance tail wheel airplanes challenge pilots in a way the G1000 Cessna 172 will never do.

It is not just the tail wheel it is the fact that in lower performance airplanes, you don’t just push the air out of the way you have to work with it by seeking the up air, avoiding the down air, finding the altitude that gives you the best ground speed and the smoother ride.

Those hard won skills will help you no matter what you fly.

Re electrical systems. If it isn’t on the airplane it can’t break

With modern GSM batteries, you can run a comm, intercom and transponder all day. Gliders do this all the time. A well set up little 4 banger Continental is one of the easiest engines to hand prop ever made, so no need for a starter

The question of metal v fabric is a harder one. As was already pointed out getting good fabric work is getting harder and harder to find and is becoming very expensive. A full re fabric and paint for a Champ will likely cost over 25 K.

If you are looking at a fabric airplane I would suggest that the fabric has to be in very good condition or you need to walk away. Metal airplanes like the C 120/140 or Luscombe can have serious corrosion issues. Whatever you buy you need to get a good pre purchase from someone who is familiar with the type.

My personal feeling is there are 2 strategies for buying an entry level simple airplane, certified or homemade. Either buy the best one you can find where someone else has paid the big bucks to make it nice, or buy something so cheap it is a throw away. You fly it until it needs major work and then part it out. For this strategy you basically only pay the salvage value of the engine for the whole airplane. A friend of mine did this with an ugly but sound Fly Baby he bought for $6000. He flew it for 200 hours at 4 gals/hr and then sold the engine and prop for what he paid for the airplane and gave the airframe to a high school and got a tax receipt.

[TwinOtterFan]

I think your onto something, I did some looking around online this morning and found a couple Christavia's out there. Good price, great shape and they have all the electrics already in them. As much as I like the Champ I think a Christavia might meet all the requirements I am looking for at this time. I did see some really nice modded Champs but all were in the OM category and after all the conversation we have had I really think certified or amateur is more for me. Every time I look into this I circle back to amateur built, must be a reason.

If I put the mission first the Christavia makes the most sense I think.