Taildragger crosswind technique

[cgzro]

I use aileron into wind for take-off and landing in all the tail draggers I fly. I've never needed to do a diagonal take-off or landing except when towing gliders and that's not because of a ferocious cross wind its just to land between gliders stopped at inconvenient places on the very wide grass runway, even then its more of a zig and a zag while on the mains or one wheel. I do sometimes let a strong cross wind blow me and the towed glider towards the downwind side of the runway during take-off at the request of the glider pilots as that allows them in the event of a tow rope break to turn into the wind and land back in the reverse direction more easily.

[Colonel]

I'm not too bright, but I suspect if you run the trigonometry (oh, Alec?)
on the very slight angle that you can get on a runway, it will not make
any measurable difference to the physics of the situation.

I suspect it's a placebo effect - purely psychological.  Like rolling in
nose-down trim before a wheel landing, to help you get the tail up after
landing - my father loves that trick - instead of having to push, you just
relax the back pressure to raise the tail after touchdown.

Dialling in trim just reduces the effectiveness of a control surface - see
Vmc - but what would I know, I am qualified but not eligible to renew my
instructor ratings in Canada.

[Liquid Charlie]

I have never done a angled take off or landing - who driving a tail dragger has the luxury of a 200 ft wide runway. In a cub 200 feet is your runway so why angle 😁 - driver like you stole her and use all that aileron. The ailerons should be on the stops by taxi speed and hard over starting a take off. I'll echo the colonel - almost no one goes to the stops after the a/c is on the ground and rolling out. I just finished a landing today with 100 degree gusty x  wind (not a big wind less than 30 kts) on a 75 foot wide snow covered runway (which is 30 feet narrower than the wing span and yes I was hard over on the controls. It even stayed on centre line. It not magic but simple technique and nothing fancy. To many try to out think themselves.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

[quote]I have never done a angled take off or landing - [/quote]

I can't remember doing one either.

I take off on the centre line and land on the centre line regardless of runway length.

And almost all of my tail wheel landings are wheel landings because that gives me better control of the airplane.

[John Swallow]

JWS:


I used a bit of an arcing departure in Regina a thousand years ago in my C-170B.  Crosswind such that aerodynamic inputs alone precluded a normal "down the runway centerline" departure.


The aircraft was position on upwind side of runway with nose cocked 20-30 degrees downwind of runway heading.  Full power, appropriate control inputs against wind, brakes released. 


As the aircraft accelerated, the aircraft slowly turned into wind; about the time the nose went through the runway heading, or shortly after, the aircraft was flying. 


Years later, in a C-150, I showed my son how to land in a strong cross wind by paralleling the runway and turning to land at an angle across it. 








As for crabbed landings:  one of the hardest things to do in a CF-5 was to land with the aircraft crabbed into wind. Every instinct was against it!




PS  About the runway width for angled approaches/departures:  of course we're talking about 150-200 wide runways.  I would have thought that was obvious... 

[Colonel]

It has been my experience that with the exception of islands
which have only one runway, any airport that can afford a
200 foot wide runway usually has another (sometimes shorter)
runway, more into wind, with much less crosswind component,
which is far more suitable for a light taildragger.

Even if it doesn't have an official landing surface, you can usually
find some collection of intersections, etc which make a better takeoff
and landing surface.  Tower will file a CADORs, that's fine.  Who cares.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

This is an interesting discussion and I would like to expand on why I take off and land staying on the centre line.

I was taught to prevent yaw during take off and landing by staying on the centre line and I have stuck to that method of aircraft handling because I just don't see any advantage to inducing yaw during these phases of flying.

[Colonel]

It would take a skilled and lucky pilot to ensure that a "little groundloop"
did not quickly turn into a "big groundloop". 

Uncontrollable yaw, despite the application of rudder, throttle and full stick
over, is pretty scary.  One gust and it's time to call the TSB.  A whole lot
of risk, there.

Best to find a better takeoff and landing surface.  Or, cancel the trip, unless
you want to give your AME a project for the next couple years.  You are
carrying medicine on this flight to save 50 children from death, correct?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

[quote]It would take a skilled and lucky pilot to ensure that a "little groundloop"
did not quickly turn into a "big groundloop".  [/quote]

Yes, inertia can be a real bitch sometimes.

That is why it is safer to have yaw under control in the most logical manner, staying on the centre line at all times, instead of using a more risky method of take off such as a curving take off which induces far more risk for no real gain.

[Colonel]

Well, I kind of understand the theory about letting the taildragger
weathervane into the crosswind, but it's fucking scary.

Here's a similar situation.  Light twin, engine failure at 200 AGL,
you actually manage to [u]NOT CRASH[/u].  You've got the gear
and the flaps up and the bad engine feathered, and you're climbing
at blue line with the ball half out, showing a whopping 200 FPM
on the VSI.  Good engine is buzzing to shit, and you hope it doesn't
crap out next.

Right about then, it's tempting to sacrifice a little bit of control
for performance, and let the engine ever-so-slowly turn into the
dead engine for the turn to downwind/base/final for an immediate
landing on the runway you just took off on.

Thoughts?  Sort of like kicking a tiger in the balls and then holding
tight onto his tail.

Ignore the TC nonsense about not being about to fly right hand
circuit.  All that paperwork BS goes out the window when it's time
to fly the aircraft.