[quote]The video should speak for itself[/quote]
Sure does. He'll be dead soon enough.
Words Fail Me
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David MacRay
- Posts: 1259
- Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:00 pm
I was kidding. I suspect it was pretty difficult to see that little plane from that angle.
In the video he said, "I didn't see you.."
In the video he said, "I didn't see you.."
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woodzi
[quote author=Colonel Sanders link=topic=4289.msg11416#msg11416 date=1474485112]
[quote]The video should speak for itself[/quote]
Sure does. He'll be dead soon enough.
[/quote]
? I am not an airshow pilot. What did he do wrong?
Also don't understand why sequential takeoffs are dangerous, assuming of course that adequate space/time is allowed between each departure.
[quote]The video should speak for itself[/quote]
Sure does. He'll be dead soon enough.
[/quote]
? I am not an airshow pilot. What did he do wrong?
Also don't understand why sequential takeoffs are dangerous, assuming of course that adequate space/time is allowed between each departure.
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Tailwind W10
- Posts: 110
- Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 5:39 pm
[quote author=Chris link=topic=4289.msg11409#msg11409 date=1474473537]
I'll be honest, I had no idea they did standing starts in Reno. Grid starts can be scary enough on a racetrack (I recall one motorcycle race where one guy stalls out, gets tapped, falls down, and then gets absolutely clobbered by someone at the tail of the grid). Now put spinning blades of death on the front of each machine...
[/quote]
Flying starts for T-6, Sport, Jet and Unlimited class. Sport Biplane, and Formula 1 still use standing starts. I suspect they cling to it for the tradition, all the air races of the '30s were standing starts. When the National air races were revived post WWII, they used the standing starts as before, this time with all the surplus fighter aircraft. Must have been an impressive sight, although with a 30 mile course in those days they'd have been strung out a bit before getting to the first pylon. 1947 saw the start of the midget racing class, sponsored by Goodyear, which evolved into the current International Formula 1, as Richard Thom's 'Hot Stuff' is a part of. The other aircraft looks like 'Endeavor' flown by Steve Senegal. He's a consummate racer, current IF1 class president, and by all accounts, an upstanding guy.
By the accounts I've read so far it looks like Thom got his canopy open, signalling his problem, before the green flag dropped. The marshal keeping an eye on his starting row apparently had his hands up and crossed signaling to the flag man to abort the start. The green flag dropped anyway. Without being there and without being privy to any investigation that may be going on, my suspicion is the race crew stuffed up. A pretty rare occurrence I might add.
Gerry
I'll be honest, I had no idea they did standing starts in Reno. Grid starts can be scary enough on a racetrack (I recall one motorcycle race where one guy stalls out, gets tapped, falls down, and then gets absolutely clobbered by someone at the tail of the grid). Now put spinning blades of death on the front of each machine...
[/quote]
Flying starts for T-6, Sport, Jet and Unlimited class. Sport Biplane, and Formula 1 still use standing starts. I suspect they cling to it for the tradition, all the air races of the '30s were standing starts. When the National air races were revived post WWII, they used the standing starts as before, this time with all the surplus fighter aircraft. Must have been an impressive sight, although with a 30 mile course in those days they'd have been strung out a bit before getting to the first pylon. 1947 saw the start of the midget racing class, sponsored by Goodyear, which evolved into the current International Formula 1, as Richard Thom's 'Hot Stuff' is a part of. The other aircraft looks like 'Endeavor' flown by Steve Senegal. He's a consummate racer, current IF1 class president, and by all accounts, an upstanding guy.
By the accounts I've read so far it looks like Thom got his canopy open, signalling his problem, before the green flag dropped. The marshal keeping an eye on his starting row apparently had his hands up and crossed signaling to the flag man to abort the start. The green flag dropped anyway. Without being there and without being privy to any investigation that may be going on, my suspicion is the race crew stuffed up. A pretty rare occurrence I might add.
Gerry
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Strega
- Posts: 384
- Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 1:43 am
[quote][font=Verdana][size=12px]I am not an airshow pilot. What did he do wrong?[/size][/font][/quote]
Ummm... drifted off track and hit the aircraft in front of him?
There is a cardinal rule in formation flying... dont hit the other aircraft..
but then again, what do I know,, Im a bad person.
Ummm... drifted off track and hit the aircraft in front of him?
There is a cardinal rule in formation flying... dont hit the other aircraft..
but then again, what do I know,, Im a bad person.
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Colonel
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:31 am
[quote]don't understand why sequential takeoffs are dangerous[/quote]
If two accidents at Reno in two days doesn't
convince you, I'm not sure what will.
Sequential takeoff are extremely dangerous -
much more dangerous than a proper formation
takeoff, which is easy as pie and safe as can be
with a wide runway like that.
Sequential takeoffs are out-of-visual, and with
the huge gaps, give people the false illusion of
safety while allowing incredible closure rates to
develop.
You are safer juggling running chainsaws.
Out-of-visual formation is suicide. The so-called
"French Connection" tried it - they were a really
good civilian formation team that flew incredibly
well, given how shitty their airplanes were. They
did a "belly-to-belly" hammerhead, and they're
both dead now.
There must be a protocol in place when wing
loses sight of the lead. Calling "blind" on the
radio, then all aircraft taking pre-determined
action, would seem to be prudent for survival.
Anyways. I'm just a "bad person" so I am not
politically favoured. But I'm still alive after all
these years, and an awful lot of guys are dead.
My father flew formation for 15 years in the
RCAF, and then we flew formation for another
20 years as civilians, and now my son and I
have flown formation for over 5 years now.
Over the decades, you tend to develop religion
which keeps you alive.
Now, my religion is not the only way of staying
alive. There may be many techniques, for
example, of safely flying surface acro without
using the "top gate" for example. But I don't
know of any.
And, there are probably other ways to fly
formation, safely "out-of-visual". But I don't
know of any.
My religion has kept me alive over the decades,
while many superior pilots to me - Jim Leroy, Bobby
Younkin, Jimmy Franklin, Freddy Cabanas,
Andrew Wright, Bill Gordon, and too many more
to list - are all dead now.
Feel free to shit on me and my religion. Everyone
else does, they tell me I'm stupid, why shouldn't you?
If two accidents at Reno in two days doesn't
convince you, I'm not sure what will.
Sequential takeoff are extremely dangerous -
much more dangerous than a proper formation
takeoff, which is easy as pie and safe as can be
with a wide runway like that.
Sequential takeoffs are out-of-visual, and with
the huge gaps, give people the false illusion of
safety while allowing incredible closure rates to
develop.
You are safer juggling running chainsaws.
Out-of-visual formation is suicide. The so-called
"French Connection" tried it - they were a really
good civilian formation team that flew incredibly
well, given how shitty their airplanes were. They
did a "belly-to-belly" hammerhead, and they're
both dead now.
There must be a protocol in place when wing
loses sight of the lead. Calling "blind" on the
radio, then all aircraft taking pre-determined
action, would seem to be prudent for survival.
Anyways. I'm just a "bad person" so I am not
politically favoured. But I'm still alive after all
these years, and an awful lot of guys are dead.
My father flew formation for 15 years in the
RCAF, and then we flew formation for another
20 years as civilians, and now my son and I
have flown formation for over 5 years now.
Over the decades, you tend to develop religion
which keeps you alive.
Now, my religion is not the only way of staying
alive. There may be many techniques, for
example, of safely flying surface acro without
using the "top gate" for example. But I don't
know of any.
And, there are probably other ways to fly
formation, safely "out-of-visual". But I don't
know of any.
My religion has kept me alive over the decades,
while many superior pilots to me - Jim Leroy, Bobby
Younkin, Jimmy Franklin, Freddy Cabanas,
Andrew Wright, Bill Gordon, and too many more
to list - are all dead now.
Feel free to shit on me and my religion. Everyone
else does, they tell me I'm stupid, why shouldn't you?
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woodzi
OK, I get it. I was under the impression that they were all starting at the same time, like an F1 car race and understood sequential as don't start until the runway ahead is clear.
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Big Ears Teddy
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:51 pm
[quote author=woodzi link=topic=4289.msg11437#msg11437 date=1474543981]
don't start until the runway ahead is clear.[/quote]
Hey, now [i]there's[/i] an idea!
don't start until the runway ahead is clear.[/quote]
Hey, now [i]there's[/i] an idea!