Impossible Turn

[Colonel]

Gerry was not afraid to [i]hurt your feelings[/i].

Alas, his generation is gone and we are left with
delicate princesses.

[youtube][/youtube]

In 25 years of flight instruction, I learned that
[b]how good someone felt about a lesson was
inversely proportional to how much they learned[/b].

As a flight instructor, though, you don't need
to go out of your way to make a student screw
up and feel horrible.  He will do that all on his
own, guaranteed.  Often quite ingeniously
and with great effort.

The best lessons are frequently learned from
experiences that nearly end your flying.  Or
your life.  Same thing.

Sorry, cupcakes.  There will be pain in learning.

Hey, what's R. Lee Ermey up to these days?

[mmm...bacon]

[quote author=vanNostrum link=topic=6766.msg18400#msg18400 date=1501108548]
On average, what would be the minimum height to attempt the manoeuvre? [C172]
[/quote]


In my last annual check, I tried it at 200' (Set ground at 3000', climbed to 3200', and chopped the power).  I would have made the infield, but not the runway. I'd probably allow 200' for "Oh, Shit!" factor, and another 100' for luck..so 500AGL?  YMMV, of course..

[vanNostrum]

Did you bank 60 degrees?
What airspeed  in the turn, notwithstanding airspeed is a poor proxy of AoA
With 60 of bank it would take around 8 seconds to do a 180, a[font=Verdana][size=2px] loss of 200 feet [/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][/size][size=2px]seems ok[/size][/font]

[Three Bars]

Short runway.

Slack winds.

High density altitude.

Heavily loaded plane.

You could be Bob fucking Hoover, but there comes a point where you're not going to make it back no matter how skilled you are.

[JW Scud]

Last year on a recurrency check down in Atlanta on the SkyCatcher, the instructer wanted to do the 180 turn back to the runway practice at an airport to the north that was not too busy. With a 5000' runway, we climbed out at Vy and simulated an engine failure at 600'. The nose is immediately pushed down combined with a 45 degree bank angle turn(turn into any crosswind). Best to look at the instrument so you know the airspeed and notice the reciprocal heading coming up. Once turned around, we needed sideslip to get down and touchdown halfway down the runway. The instructor said that 600 feet works well in all airplanes up to a King Air.


His opinion only as some aircraft have a lot of drag. But in reality, you should be ready to do this without delay from the beginning of the takeoff roll.

[Colonel]

Glad you flew with someone that had a clue. Refreshing.

Small nit:

[quote]The nose is immediately pushed down[/quote]

[b]Don't do that[/b].  Negative G is no friend of yours.

Here's another secret:  [b]We trim for an airspeed[/b].

Hopefully you are climbing out, with the aircraft
trimmed for neutral elevator pressure - you are
neither pushing or pulling continuously as you
climb.

When the engine quits, please don't express
your artistic creativity with the elevator, which
can develop alarming AOA.

[i]Soft hands on the controls[/i].

Full aileron into the crosswind, 60 degrees of
bank in the descending steep turn, and [b]let the
nose drop in the turn[/b] to maintain the trimmed
airspeed that you had in the climb.  Very light
G - almost zero - and very low AOA.

Really not very hard.

[i]Soft hands on the controls[/i].

I know people think I'm a fucking moron compared
to them, but I know a little bit about this stick
and rudder business.

Often, you get very good results by letting go
of the stick.  I know pilots always think the soup
tastes better if they pee in it, but no.

Do you have any idea how many times I've
watched pilots try to pick up a dropping wing
with the aileron, and create adverse yaw?
Hell, they might as well have booted full
into-the-spin rudder.

[i]Soft hands on the controls[/i].

I know I'm not too bright, but see Beggs-Mueller,
and the results of Spencer Suderman's latest
verification thereof.

[img][/img]

Recall what the four-bars of Colgan 3407 and
AF447 were doing before impact?  [b]Pulling back
as hard as they fucking could.  [/b]

Spot the pattern?

If all the four bars of TransAsia Airways Flight 235
had done [b]absolutely nothing[/b] after their engine
failure - if they all sat there with their arms crossed -
everyone would still be alive.

[quote]"Wow, [b]pulled back the wrong side throttle[/b]," Liao, 41, was heard to say on voice recordings seconds before the crash.[/quote]

Any lessons to learn here?

I learned a long time ago that [b]fast hands in the
cockpit[/b] scare the shit out of me.  That sort of
nonsense is how people keep raising the gear
during rollout, year after year after year.

A very old pilot once taught me a long time ago,
that the first thing you do when an engine fails,
is [b]light a cigar[/b].

If your brain isn't moving faster than your hands,
you are in a world of hurt.

[DeflectionShot]

Beggs-Mueller in 38 seconds.....

[Colonel]

One of the most important survival skills you
will ever learn - and no one teaches it - is [b]the
ability to rapidly decide in an emergency if this
is a situation[/b] which

1) needs no input to successfully resolve, or

2) if it's a situation which needs an instant,
massive input from you to avoid disaster.

Pilots always jump to door #2, and often shoot
themselves in the foot in the process.

Generally, the less altitude you have, the more
likely it is #2.  A tailwheel aircraft, for example,
heading towards the ditch, needs some immediate
magic input to avoid serious damage.

[img width=500 height=375][/img]

This is why most pilots avoid tailwheel aircraft
and maneuvering at low altitude.  You know, all
the fun stuff!

[img width=500 height=334][/img]

[img width=500 height=334]http://www.vg-photo.com/airshow/appleva ... C_9775.jpg[/img]

[David MacRay]

That upside downy lookin' unit, is that one o' them L-29s? It looks fun.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Yup, like the Colonel says never do something stupid quick.