Emergency descents in a light plane

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I have forgotten the VRF on top rules.

Is there a limit on how far you can fly on top of a solid undercast?


[font=verdana]While I'm opining on this subject I would like to add another personal rule I have, I do not believe in flying a single engine aircraft beyond gliding distance of land.[/font]

Especially out here on the west coast where the water is very, very cold year round.

[ScudRunner-d95]

[quote author=Slick Goodlin link=topic=7359.msg20116#msg20116 date=1508960004]
[quote author=ScudRunner link=topic=7359.msg20109#msg20109 date=1508950444]
:o never heard of that "technique"[/quote]
It's in the Cessna 150 manual, or at least it was at one time.
[/quote]


Never flown a 150 in or outside cloud.

Link to POH
[url=Forum/maintenance-and-aircraft-resource ... 0152/5610/]Forum/maintenance-and-aircraft-resource ... 0152/5610/[/url]






[quote author=Shiny link=topic=7359.msg20112#msg20112 date=1508953212]

[quote]I would invest in an instrument rating.[/quote]

Or just don't fly into the clouds. Its really not that hard. Having an instrument rating after all, doesn't absolve you from needing to know about weather. So just have some common weather sense. Or maybe not so common as it is.

[quote]First thing make sure Pitot heats is on if equipped. Get on them gauges.
Turn 180, if required climb to sector safe
Call for help, don't be afraid of ATC or even sqwaking 7700


[/quote]

For shit sake, do all those things before the emergency descent procedure. Use your phone to call for help if you really need to.

[/quote]




probably was texting with his head down in the first place thats how he got into cloud.


BRB OMG emerg Decent Brosef!!! LOL

[Trey Kule]

The sense I get is this is really one of those hangar discussion questions.


Inadvertant entry into cloud by a VFR only pilot.....with enough open space beneath the cloud to do a descent safely,,,  Really? If you have already demonstrated your poor decision making by “ inadvertently” flying into the cloud, how would you then want to rely on that same ability to assume you can safely descend below the cloud?


Typically, if you are flying VFR you are going to stay below the clouds.  If you have to turn around at low altitude and find things are closed in behind you...its time to climb, not desend.  I have absolutely no idea where you would do a 180 and then start descending looking for the ground....


If your five hours of instrument training for your ppl have not been pissed away, a few minutes in cloud should not present a problem...In the UK years agoyou could get an IF rating with 10 hours of training ( probably changed now).

The only POH I ever saw with this type of technique was an AN2. 



I think a better question would be what can we do to emphasize to VFR pilots to stay out of cloud?  Or turn around before they “ inadvertently”. Enter cloud.  Not discuss techniques to try and resolve stupid decisions..

Having posted my rant, it would not surprise me that some instructor, somewhere, has decided to take the training up a notch by teaching a student to do this....after all, “scenarios”. are so much better...even if they are pure fantasy.....Its all billable by the hour.

[Four Bars]

I think this procedure first appeared as an alternative to that which had been used for decades before in airplanes that went a bit slower and spun more predictably as well as recovering from one instantly and in a minimal vertical distance.
Especially over flat terrain, when assured of a reasonable ceiling below, one would intentionally navigate on deduced reckoning coupled with-at night-navigating by the bright areas of undercast that were cities and at some aerodromes there was also the reassuring, intensely-bright spot of the rotating beacon turned to shine vertically.
Then it was a  simple and "safe" matter of using these aids to fly overhead the airport and intentionally enter a spin. As we all know, when held in a proper spin, the airspeed is low and stable, as is the G-loading.
Upon emerging from the overcast, one had only to recover from the spin.
I think that the problem with this procedure began at that point and they had to do with the vestibular apparatus that we all have...

[DeflectionShot]

[quote]I've found it somewhat useful in terms of combating any sensations of vertigo a pilot might encounter while flying the instruments.[/quote]

Good point on the vertigo. After all, this is really a Hail Mary maneuver, isn't it? You've lost your way in cloud, you're disoriented, you're on the verge of panic, maybe you've lost your instruments/electrics and you're failing to keep control on partial panel. And it's not just VFR pilots. Instrument pilots can lose their situational awareness and fall apart in the cockpit too. I wonder if this guy could have saved himself and his passengers if he had taken a deep breath, throttled back, trimmed nose up and descended slowly to VMC?

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2015/09/a ... 15-in.html

Not sure it would have worked in a Bonanza, but still...

[Rookie Pilot]

I agree with Shiny a serious study of weather should be essential for anyone venturing IFR.


VFR OTT is a rather tricky item. Easy to get stuck on top.