Date: 23 October 17, 04:42 AM
Do you already have an account?

Forgot your password?


 Experts



0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Strega



Posts 404
Report to moderator

Offline Offline


  • 404
    Posts
I wonder if the experts on the other site would think spinning a homebuilt like a pitts, is dangerous, because its not certified for spins?

Linkback: http://scudrunners.com/Forum/hot-air-misc-forum/11/experts/6483/

John Swallow



Posts 178
Report to moderator

Offline Offline


  • 178
    Posts
Hey!   I sneak over there!!!   (;>0)

I understand that to be certified for spins, an aircraft must meet certain criteria.  If it doesn't meet those criteria, it may be restricted "No Spins". 

Which means that the aircraft may be able to execute quite nice spins and spin recovery, (like the Pitts), but doesn't meet the FAA requirements.

So, the question should not be "is it dangerous", but more of "is it advisable". 

With the Pitts, there is quite a body of information about recovering from normal and inverted spins, but if you're going to spin your "Gesnortin' Gofast" which hasn't been so certified, you've just become a test pilot.  And a poorly paid one at that.

An aside:

The CF-5 used to be touted as "Spin Proof"...  After an accident, we found out that it was "Spin Resistant".  However, once in a spin, it was non-recoverable.   

cgzro



Posts 114
Report to moderator

Offline Offline


  • 114
    Posts
I suspect that a plane which is hard to get into a spin (i.e. resistant), once in a spin is probably hard to get out. The kinds of things that make it easy to spin, lots of yaw and pitch authority also of course are required to exit quickly.


David MacRay


PPL
Posts 1118
Report to moderator

Offline Offline

  • **

  • 1118
    Posts
X-spurts?

You mean all those goofs, that are so busy arguing with Chuck about trying to wreck a Cheetah by trying to get it to do an incipient spin, instead of helping the guy looking for a poopy suit to ferry his company Air Tractor to Australia.

Colonel Sanders


ATPL
Posts 2632
Report to moderator

Offline Offline

  • ****

  • 2632
    Posts
Spins are a weird little corner of aerobatics which
itself is tiny in Canada.  The spin knowledge in Canada
is nearly non-existent.  The level of spin knowledge
required for even an aerobatic instructor rating is
woefully inadequate.

This is not surprising for a group of people who
don't even understand what polar moment of inertia
is, and surely do not understand how it applies to
spin behavior.

Free piece of advice from the stupidest person
here, who gave the Chief Test Pilot of the NRC
a lengthy spin training course:

Spins are highly type specific.  What works on
one aircraft does not necessarily transfer to
another type.  Changes in W&B + PMI to a familiar
aircraft can completely alter spin characteristics. 
Just ask Kathy Jaffe, or Art Scholl, or this guy:




Vicki Cruse was an unlimited category aerobatic
pilot, and the goddamned President of the IAC,
and you simply wouldn't believe how she died,
in one of those plastic monoplanes.

Ask the "experts" to demonstrate spin recovery
below 1000 feet.  This is how a "BAD PERSON"
(lacking in sufficient virtue to be permitted into
Canada) does it:

www.pittspecials.com/movies/tumble.wmv

This is how the virtuous experts do it:



I'm sure none of the experts could even recall the
name Greg Connell, who tried to fly with my buddy
Gary.  With all due respect to the Canadian experts,
not one of them belongs in the same room as Gary.

This is what a real expert looks like:


Ask your Canadian expert to demonstrate a knife-edge
spin at low altitude. like Gary does.  Best to make funeral
arrangements for them, ahead of time.


I remember watching Gary fly at a airshow in Mississippi
when he still had the G202.  He would point at the
ground, vertical downline,  pull +10G's and run his
tailwheel through the weeds back to a vertical upline.

Transport Canada would hate him because of his knowledge
and skill, but Gary is smart enough to stay away from their claws.

Big Ears Teddy



Posts 56
Report to moderator

Offline Offline


  • 56
    Posts
Attaboy Hedley, that's why I come here, to see videos of people dying. Good on you, can you please post some more?

Colonel Sanders


ATPL
Posts 2632
Report to moderator

Offline Offline

  • ****

  • 2632
    Posts
I agree.  We shouldn't learn from the lessons of history,
in case anyone's feelings get hurt.


Instead, we should keep on making the same mistake
over and over again, like a good four bar.

It's better to crash, than to hurt someone's feelings,
right cupcake?


Here's another one of you four bars, that didn't
know what a "top gate" was.  I hope his feelings
weren't hurt after he killed 11 on the ground.



Nothing to learn here, either:


Big Ears Teddy



Posts 56
Report to moderator

Offline Offline


  • 56
    Posts
Dig this, cupkake:

I watched a guy crash an airplane and die.

Live, in person, front row centre. Right in front of me.

I never took my eyes off him. The crowd was watching the other plane that went west, but for some reason I was fixed on the plane that went east. And I watched him fly it right into Lake Ontario. BOOM!

Black smoke, dead pilot.

I was left a little weak in the knees when I saw that. It affected me greatly for the rest of my life.

How about you, Hedley?  Have you ever seen someone crash an airplane and die before your eyes?




Nark


ATPL
Posts 211
Report to moderator

Offline Offline

  • ****

  • 211
    Posts
Big Teddy,


People die everyday.  Some people chose to facilitate their death, others are ignorant to it.


It's part of life. 



Colonel Sanders


ATPL
Posts 2632
Report to moderator

Offline Offline

  • ****

  • 2632
    Posts
There's no crying in baseball, either.


This guy sure worries about feelings:


Nark


ATPL
Posts 211
Report to moderator

Offline Offline

  • ****

  • 211
    Posts
I was waiting for the "news" outlets to report it.

I dealt with this yesterday:
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-06-20/french-journalist-dies-in-iraq-after-being-wounded-in-mosul

Sympathy for your witnessing a fatality at an airshow is pretty low.

Big Ears Teddy



Posts 56
Report to moderator

Offline Offline


  • 56
    Posts
Reports of your death in action will be equally received.

Nark


ATPL
Posts 211
Report to moderator

Offline Offline

  • ****

  • 211
    Posts
Reports of your death in action will be equally received.

I don't want, nor expect sympathy from you or anyone.  I knowingly fly a helicopter all over a very dynamic war zone. People are dying here daily.   

Maybe the next time you see a Canadian soldier you can thank them for their service to the Kurds and the service they provide for Northern Iraq. 

That's right... The Canadians are here in full force too. 

Trey Kule



Posts 138
Report to moderator

Offline Offline


  • 138
    Posts
There is good news on the horizon,

I have it on good authority that TC has been monitoring and evaluating the photos and postings on this site, and have decided to take action on it to increase safety,

A proposal is being put forward that a new requirement will be added to the ATPL requiring 25 hours of aerobatic training , specifically in a Pitts.

I also understand that Pitts training ,including hateposting, name dropping, and picture posti-bragging will be included in the requirements to be PIC on any aircraft over 12 hundred pounds,

Hence " four bars" will stop being a derogatory, condescending name used by the envious, and will refer only to the military officer Colonel rank, or Airline Captains who have met the new and superior standards.


Vtoss



Posts 114
Report to moderator

Offline Offline


  • 114
    Posts
I find it interesting that the Colonel writes off people like Marcus Paine as being idiots who don't understand density altitude, and then he himself admits that he leaves very little margin for error when doing low-level aerobatics. And if a tribunal points out his errors, they're idiots too. He's safe because he hasn't died yet.


Anyone else spot the faulty logic there? I'm not normally interested in watching aerobatics, but I'm thinking I should go to the Colonel's airshows just so I can post pictures of his fiery crash here and we can all laugh and say what an idiot he was for not knowing what a top gate is.



Share via facebook Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via twitter

xx
OK you experts

Started by Liquid Charlie

3 Replies
241 Views
Last post November 02, 2016, 10:09:14 PM
by Liquid Charlie
moved
MOVED: Experts

Started by Rosco P Coltrane

0 Replies
280 Views
Last post June 17, 2017, 11:42:01 AM
by Rosco P Coltrane
xx
AvCan Experts Tell Us Grass Runways are Bad

Started by Colonel Sanders

21 Replies
666 Views
Last post July 28, 2016, 07:38:43 AM
by David MacRay
xx
Experts Speak to Cyber Security in Aviation

Started by Aviation Today

0 Replies
130 Views
Last post June 12, 2015, 12:03:44 PM
by Aviation Today
xx
Equip Now: Experts Push Operators to Comply

Started by Aviation Today

0 Replies
80 Views
Last post October 16, 2015, 12:04:21 PM
by Aviation Today